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1,723 Views • Premiered Dec 11, 2020 • Click to toggle off description
The Nostalgia Goggles Fallacy is one often used by condescending jackasses who speak more than they do listen when discussing an older product they don't like, despite having a massive fanbase. Here is why it ends the conversation before it gives the chance to engage in it, and why it shouldn't be a crutch for criticizing an older product.
#NostalgiaGoggles #VideoGameDiscussion #MovieDiscussion #Fallacy
0:00 Introduction
2:34 Why Articulation Is Important For Discussion
4:31 What Nostalgia REALLY Is
5:38 How Finding Nemo Holds Up Even BETTER Than I Remember
8:30 How Phantom Menace Holds Up WORSE Than I Remember
11:51 Why Star Fox 64 Is Still Great
14:02 Why Donkey Kong 64 Isn't As Great As I Remember
14:44 Why Nostalgia Cannot Make A Product Hold Up
15:36 Conclusion
18:36 Clone Crisis
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Views : 1,723
Genre: Gaming
Date of upload: Premiered Dec 11, 2020 ^^
Rating : 4.794 (5/92 LTDR)
RYD date created : 2022-01-19T16:59:41.653061Z
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YouTube Comments - 40 Comments
Top Comments of this video!! :3
When it comes to low stakes conversations about interests (be it games, movies, etc.), arguments like "you just have your nostalgia goggles on" is basically saying that someone's personal retrospective contains insufficient "objective" material, which is nonsensical. Like you said in the video, it takes more than just having a good memory to hold a game up.
For instance, as a kid, I LOVED The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. But for the longest time, I didn't really know what I liked about the game itself. It wasn't until I got older that I truly understood why I found that game so enjoyable. The items, the world, the story, heck, even the controls are all things I've come to better understand. Sure, I've got strong nostalgia for OoT, but that nostalgia hardly paints a comprehensible picture of what I saw in that game and is borderline useless for articulating my thoughts.
Of course, I've seen people who have leaned more on nostalgia to the point where no actual argument was being formed in their favorite game's favor (i.e. only saying that people don't understand the game or that the game was revolutionary and is still the best), but that's more of a case of pride and the desire to "protect" something, which is an entirely separate issue. It's rare to see someone who tries to exclusively ride on a past experience that can be hardly recollected.
Even then, people are entitled to think and feel what they feel. "You let your past/personal experiences sweeten your favorite game!". OK, and? If someone's gone through a bad time and they like a game/movie/book because that got them through a rough patch, there are most certainly qualities that contributed towards helping that person out during that period, but if said qualities happened to show up at the right time and make their experience so much more powerful, there's nothing wrong with that, because that's merely a more human element sprinkled in.
If no one ever gave their subjective spin on their observations, this would be a much less interesting world to live in.
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My issue with the whole "nostalgia goggles" fallacy is that when its used its used in such a way where the application isn't completely accurate. Just based on the assumption that "It hasn't aged well, so you only liked it for the vision of long ago" and in this case it has become less of an actual word used to describe something outdated and more of a buzzword. The same way people abuse cringe, , Mary Sue or toxic have been abused, nostalgia fits right into that category of words people abuse or just throw in even when the reason has nothing to do of the sort.
For instance saying "Such an such fans only like said character because nostalgia goggles" okay how would you know EVERYONE likes said character for the same reason? Its often used to group people when you can't just unfairly generalized. You can substitute character for game or any sort of media and its used for the same thing. The worst offender being if its counter culture. I do agree that this is a term often used for the sake of "proving the opposite point wrong" rather than having any actual meaning. At least how people tend to abuse it.
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Great video. Found my way here after getting this argument thrown back at me a few too many times. I get kind of triggered every time I hear somebody start this argument. I've learned that these arguments are akin to the whole "don't play chess with a pigeon. it will kick the pieces off the table, crap on the board, then strut around like it won". They're making a very tired and lazy argument attempting to discredit the person making it. Sure the "condescending gaming grandpa" mindset is real too and equally as tired and lazy, but the majority of the times I hear these arguments it doesn't even bring up a newer title. It's just one person talking about how good an older title was while immediately having their opinion discarded and discourse ended. This also makes it hard to discuss why you think an older game in a series is better than a newer one, as the whole discussion goes out the window when they bring up nostalgia goggles/rose tinted glasses. This happens even when the ratings of these games have plummeted in time and everyone dislikes the newest titles (think of something like Tony Hawks Pro Skater). The decline is plain to see, but even that usually gets something along the lines of "It was never good" in response. The worst part of it to me is that the whole argument has become so common place that a huge portion of people seem to just assume it's right and move on without ever experiencing some of the great things older content has to offer. It's not like I think everything from back then was great and everything now sucks. I've gone back and played a lot of titles that were worse than I remember them being, or had certain issues that weren't as glaring to me at the time. I've also played many things that I appreciate more now than I did as a child.
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Aquas was always kinda a favourite level for me. I kinda wish we had more than 1 Blue Marine level. Infact I have a certain fondness for all the non Arwing levels, maybe because they stood out from the rest of the game. Like the train level on Macbeth, or Titania, also the little nod to Shakespeare there for two Land Master levels.
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I was really mad my parents didn’t let me see Star Wars episode 1 in theaters ( there is a story there but that’s for another day.) I think I like Star Wars episode one more now than I did when it was new. I liked it so much especially back in the day because while waiting for that movie to come to VHS so I could see it , I was reading the Star Wars Jedi apprentice books. I felt like I had secret information ( sure none of it’s technically canon), but I felt like I knew these characters in a way other people didn’t, so when I finally got to watch TPM , I liked it a lot. I mean sure I don’t really care for the characters of Anakin or Jar Jar all that well, but everyone else just seemed fine honestly. I liked the battle scenes, I like the fact that it was about a trade dispute instead of another giant space monster fortress that needs to be blown up. All space movies are political, I find it interesting that they chose to cover this particular type of space politics. I’m a huge racing fan, so it was neat to see racing in a sci-fi movie. I feel like I definitely have some solid reasons for enjoying episode one, there’s some movies out there that I liked as a kid that I just can’t stand anymore. I did a VHS Collecting Video ( it’s my most popular video now for some reason). I made a video about A game that got me through a hard time( in fact the event happened about a year ago.) I don’t understand the people of my generation who act like gaming was so much better back then, we didn’t have nearly as much choice as we do now , we didn’t even know if games were good or not when we bought them, things are better than they’ve ever been. Yeah it’s really crazy when young people act like gaming was better back in the day, it’s like we have Internet now, and YouTube walk-throughs, so much selection is so much choice. Great job on this video man! I look forward to part two.
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Nostalgia can contribute to the enjoyment. The problem are people who act like it was described in 1:40 to 2:10 of the video. They presume that any older work that they don't love, but is loved by millions of other people, is loved only due to nostalgia. That's an ignorant and jerkass argument to make. More often than not, you may not love something that many other people love. And it can happen with an older game or something released now. Maybe just matter of taste. But whenever the game happens to be at least slightly older, then they'll try to disqualify its reputation as being only nostalgia.
7 |
Great video overall. While our early experiences can effect what one wants in a game you can still perform an objective analysis. The key is ensuring not too much time passes from visiting a work from childhood.
For example I was only 12 when Kid Icarus: Uprising came out but I replayed the game a couple years ago and it still holds up amazingly. However something like the Lego games while I still like for their novelty and presination the gameplay isn’t as engaging as I found it as a kid
I find it fitting you used Kingsom Hearts music because it’s a strong counter example to the nostalgia argument. Some people claim you can only like the games if you grew up on them or that the series stopped being good after KHII. However I didn’t play the games till I was 19 and I enjoyed the story in all of them and the gameplay of most of them while acknowledging their flaws.
While I’m sure there are people who let nostalgia get the better of them it’s a minority
Only thing I can disagree with your video is calling Qui-Gon the only interesting character in the Phantom Menace. I could probably write an essay on why I find Padme one of the most rounded and developed characters in the Star Wars film series.
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I mean the only time people will even slightly agree with you when you're criticizing something old is if you're criticizing something you yourself once loved back then. I mean just the other day I thought I'd play some Super Double Dragon on the Super Nintendo. So that's what I did and things were fun for a good 15-20 minutes but then I got bored once I got to Chinatown. I couldn't even get to the part where you fight the fat guy who jumps and spins in the air. That's how fast I got bored. I quickly realized how repetitive the gameplay is. Then I tried the original Resident Evil on the PS1 and that was even worse. Nostalgia often does make me overestimate how much fun I'll have playing an old game. The fun usually fades fast.
On the other hand I did have a better time playing Super Mario All Stars, and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to The Past.
1 |
I didn’t even experience a majority of the games and stuff I enjoy now until more recently, so if somebody uses the nostalgia goggles argument on me then I will go off
7 |
Awesome videos bro. Do you think you'll ever do a Mario odyssey review?
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What's the song used for 17:00? It sounds like a Zelda song.
Overall, I do like the video. It does a good job at explaining why it's pointless to resort to such an argument. Sure, there will always be people who do only state nostalgia as their reasons for liking a game, but assuming nostalgia is never a good argument.
1 |
I hate that assumption too. Like there some games I'm nostalgic for, but over the years I've began to notice their flaws. But despite them I still think they hold up.
Although there are somethings I only like cause of nostalgia I'll admit, like the original Mario Kart and uh... I hate to admit but I loved Chicken Little as a kid.
But sometimes for me nostalgia can enhance the experience, and can be a huge comfort source for me. Things that have especially helped throughout this year, I can't wait for next year and to start fresh.
I'd list some examples but I don't wanna tldr on ya.
3 |
Me: Game monetization was way better for the customer back in the day.
Idiot: That's just nostalgia speaking.
I was in utter shock at that one. I honestly think the people who use this argument were not there to experience something and are a little bitter over it.
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Season 6? Thats a long time
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I did not like Phantom Menace when I was a kid and I do not like it now. I know some people who have Phantom Menace as their favorite movie and the only reason for it is nostalgia. When it comes to video games there were some I played when I was a kid that I liked a lot more when I was a kid and there are some games I played when I was a kid that I like more now than back then. Pokemon Red and Pokemon Gold were some of my favorite games and now they are some of the worst in the series.
3 |
The JRPG community has a lot of people with "boomer" mentality.
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Well I just got done playing (classic well received game) five seconds ago and it's terrible you have nostalgia glasses on.
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It’s fine liking something because of nostalgia. My problem is that people don’t want to admit it.
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Sonic advanture 2 is dog shit. I loved
It when I was a kid but I tried playing it on my emulator a while ago and I just couldnt… its so fucking clunky, theres no momentum and the enemies are just static objects that shoot very obvious projectiles. The only challenge is trying to navigate the glichy ass levels. Nostalgia goggles arw definently real. Not all old games are shit. Mario 64, halo 1, the classic sonic games. All very polished well made games. Sonic adventure 2 is NOT one of these games lol. Nostalgia doesnt fix blatant game design flaws.
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@Dalvory
3 years ago
Great vid mang. Completely agree. And that's actually why I still love Pixar and Dreamworks films. Those films had themes and subject matter that maybe went over our heads as kids, but that we as adults can appreciate. The Incredibles and Wall-E come to mind for me.
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