https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXWp-rE5vNk
In the Final Shape, a long standing mystery is finally revealed. The Winnower is a real thing.. And the Witness is the First Knife it wields. Today we discus

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dd8u8o/explaining_the_veil_and_the_winnower/
This lines up with what Ahsa says and what we know of the Veil: while the Witness would like to believe it is the Winnower, the Witness actually needs to be the "first knife" to cut through to the final shape. It needs to take control when its supposed "Winnower" isn't actually doing anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL7yq7hXNGY
Destiny 2's Lore and Story from The Final Shape has confirmed that the Winnower, the long mythologised true entity of Darkness, is real. The Witness confirme

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dhzn3a/if_the_witness_isnt_the_darkness_it_was_just/
This sub is for discussing the lore of Bungie's game Destiny 2 and its predecessor, Destiny. ... If the answers to all the above questions are yes then our thwarting of the Witness can only be seen as a temporary, ... I'm not convinced the Gardener and Winnower actually exist. I think the Witness's Precursors saw the Traveler

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/t9k199/are_the_witness_and_winnower_the_same/
The idea that they are different is a misunderstanding caused by Savathun's post campaign Altars of Reflection dialogue. We have more than enough to confirm The Traveler is The Gardener and everything points to The Witness being The Winnower. No, not the same. The Winnower and Traveler are primordial concepts made into material beings.

https://www.zleague.gg/theportal/unraveling-destiny-2-the-winnower-the-witness-and-the-guardian-what-lies-ahead/
The concept of The Winnower as a neutral observer making bets on the fate of the universe has intrigued players, leading to discussions on the true intentions behind its actions. Some players view The Winnower as a pivotal figure in shaping Destiny 2's future narratives, while others see it as a passive entity waiting for the inevitable.

https://www.polygon.com/23767367/veil-traveler-gardener-winnower-witness-explained-cutscene-destiny-2
The Witness' people found The Veil, and in turn, it taught them about the nature of Light and Dark. They discovered that Light is capable of both creation and destruction. So they deemed the

https://twinfinite.net/destiny-2/destiny-2s-winnower-is-canon/
The Witness and Winnower have been a long-running rumor and topic of discussion in the Destiny community for many years now. However, Bungie has finally confirmed that the Winnower is canon, and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaRUHfpbQ
The Gardener, The Winnower, The Allegory and the Unveiling. Final Shape lore suggests that the Winnower may be a separate being beyond the Darkness powers of

https://www.zleague.gg/theportal/the-witness-vs-the-winnower-a-throwback-to-destiny-2s-2014-launch/
The Witness and The Winnower. Back in 2014, the launch of Destiny 2 brought waves of excitement and nostalgia to players, reminiscent of the golden days of gaming. The mere mention of titles like 'The Witness' and 'The Winnower' evokes a sense of whimsy and sentimentality, capturing the essence of a bygone era in gaming history.

https://www.gameskinny.com/culture/destiny-2-the-witness-explained/
Learn some of the basics about this enigmatic being, Destiny 2's main antagonist and the architect of our end. The Witness is the ultimate adversary in Destiny 2, the figure ultimately behind every tragedy and adversary Guardians have ever faced. For many years, we weren't sure what it was, where it came from or, most importantly, what it wanted.

https://www.destructoid.com/what-is-the-winnower-in-destiny-2/
Screenshot by Destructoid. The easiest way to describe the Winnower in Destiny 2 is as the devil. But that misses the nuance of exactly what it is. In the game's universe, there were two beings

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1d9muay/thoughts_on_the_winnower_actually_existing/
my pet theory is i think it exists, is veil or is beyond the veil, but the winnower from unveiling was just the witness writing fanfiction. i think maya's experiments with veil are a mirror to what happened with the precursors - they interacted with the veil, weren't ready for what it showed them and it changed them in some way. i don't think it's even intentional. the witness wanted meaning

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1d37907/we_can_expect_to_defeat_the_witness_but_what/
The Gardener and Winnower actually exist and are sentient beings. The Winnower and Witness are separate entities. Unveiling is a (one-sided) depiction of real historical events. The Gardener and Winnower at one point worked in tandem and a rift formed and they separated.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1d9j6qp/the_first_knife_winnower_and_the_witness/
In Inspiral, we're told by someone (most likely the Witness, given their description is pretty much the exact same) that if there is no winnower, it is the flowers who must take up the knife. Earlier in the lore page, it mentions that the first knife only exists because of something that needs to be cut, or in this case winnowed.

https://www.destinypedia.com/The_Witness
The Witness, also known as the Entity, or the Voice in the Darkness, was an immensely powerful Darkness-wielding being who commanded the Black Fleet.Originating from the first known civilization uplifted by the Traveler, it was the product of an entire species having merged into one entity through the mastery of the Darkness; their minds bound together into a single gestalt consciousness.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/15387rl/is_the_veil_really_the_winnower/
The Veil is almost certainly the Winnower. The Gardener's counterpart in the Darkness, a "schism between them" that predates the Witness, Bungie practically screaming that the Witness is the First Knife (which would have been "discovered" through the Veil), the Veil turning Maya evil with promises of "salvation" and guiding her along the same path the Witness pursued (as Osiris

https://www.vidoe.top/video/destiny-2-it-actually-exists-the-winnower-above-the-witness-da96ed677c92f38b331331.html
Destiny 2 - IT ACTUALLY EXISTS.. The Winnower Above The Witness. 133K views

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/14eqgh3/the_witness_is_not_the_winnower/
The Witness-race desired a Winnower to "carve-up" the Garden - presumably this is a stand-in for existence itself (the Universe), but there's no indication that The Witness (as we now know it) is The Winnower. If anything, as the cutscene suggests, The Darkness - that they found via The Veil - is the Winnower: it's the thing that is going to

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dlds9a/tfs_spoilers_if_i_hear_the_word_winnower_one_more/
Every piece of evidence seems to suggest the Winnower does not exist, and is merely a construct of the Witness used to justify what it had become. I'm gonna be blunt here. There is nothing, literally not a single shred of concrete evidence whatsoever, that the Winnower doesn't exist. None.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dkw05y/so_about_that_nacre_exotic_ship_lore_tab_from_the/
That line REALLY stuck out to me too, you're not the only one! I think it could be nothing. The Winnower's original objection in Unveiling to the Gardener's plan is not "you'll prevent the final shape", it's that "you'll make everything suffer so much more and we'll get the final shape anyway."

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dlbx7c/is_the_winnowers_logic_self_defeating/
I've been thinking. Since the Winnower thinks the Gardener is committing a faux pas in changing the rules of the flower game and allowing for breaches in "the pattern" and the Winnower ALSO thinks only the things strong enough to exist SHOULD exist, isn't the Gardener's usurping of the Winnower's dominance kinda the Gardener proving it is the being better suited to exist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/1dgr7dx/does_it_feel_incredibly_weird_for_anyone_else/
Destiny began with us battling the forces of Darkness. We just beat the one controlling the forces of Darkness we were currently battling and made new revelations about the world around us. The Dual Destiny mission and Savathun's presence in Final Shape pretty much exists to point out how much more complicated things are than simply Light vs. Dark.