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Views : 769,843
Genre: Education
Date of upload: Apr 21, 2024 ^^
Rating : 4.926 (490/26,085 LTDR)
RYD date created : 2024-05-09T11:19:46.300176Z
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YouTube Comments - 2,675 Comments
Top Comments of this video!! :3
As an ARFF Firefighter (Airport Rescue & Fire Fighting) I can tell you a controllers main reason for asking for fuel load in a none low fuel emergency is for us. Our truck carry between 1500 and 3000 gallons of water. We can convert to foam via a foam concentrate we mix into the water. The more fuel you have the more foam we will need if your fuel tanks rupture. We use foam even in the absence of fire because it floats in the leaking fuel and keeps it from being able to ignite. Us knowing how much fuel is onboard gives us that heads up to calculate if we have enough resources. Hours of fuel does not tell us the actual volume because we donāt know the aircraft consumption rate. We have ti have it in pounds or gallons for our calculations. Food for thought for pilots who give it in hours.
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Task saturation kills pilots. As a fellow long haul captain, this conversation needs to happen, in earnest much more often. Keep it coming brother.
210 |
"You might have to let the engine burn, which isn't part of procedure...but neither is hitting the mountain"....LMAO you always unintentionally crack me up @74 Gear!
43 |
From VASAviationās videos Iāve learned that if pilots say fuel in pounds they get asked for time, and if they give it in time they get asked for pounds, and if they give it in both they get asked for it in pints.
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Kelsey recording this video after being kidnapped and held in an abandoned warehouse? Blink three times if you need us to send the A-Team
2.8K |
In the mid 80s my father was flying alone for the DEA in the middle of the night on the way home from a mission when a piston ejected through the hood. He was told to stand by after declaring mayday multiple times until he eventually crash landed in a field. Never was able to communicate with tower. He survived but was knocked unconscious, seat belt caught so hard he had to get stitches in his chest. He was a legend!
27 |
Many years ago we lost an outboard engine on takeoff from Lajes field, Azores. We were in a KC130 bagged out with 65 thousand pounds of fuel. Once weād shut down the engine and started to dump fuel and barely having positive rate of climb, we declared Mayday and came around to land but were directed to extend our down wind for a P-3 that was in the pattern doing touch and goes. Got to love it.
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"Mayday mayday mayday."
"Are you declaring an emergency?"
"Is this your first day as an ATC?"
983 |
We must appreciate that Kelsey left his nice hotel and brought all of his recording equipment and stood in an abandoned building just to tell us about this!
654 |
Hi, Im a 787 Captain and my son is an Air Traffic Controller and a commercial pilot. First, I too am very much a stickler for standard ICAO phraseology on the radio. ICAO phraseology needs more emphasis during instrument training. We frequently have discussions of pilot vs controller issues. When he's at work, he is always called over when an aircraft declares an emergency to give information about what the emergency aircraft might need or be doing. It shocks me that the controller in this situation did not immediately realize the significance of the Mayday call. Kudos to the crew for using the correct Mayday call. on the other hand, Im amazed at the number of aircrews that do not declare an emergency when they should. As far as thrust reversers, I believe it was a Lauda Air 767, 30 some odd years ago, that had a reverser actually deploy inflight. The crew lost control of the aircraft very quickly and crashed.
119 |
Kelsey deserves a fifth stripe. Addresses serious matters with an outrageous tongue in cheek humour. As he says (twice) "I'm just a big cry baby". Who tosses around 747's like they are feathers. 74Gear rules!
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"That may not be procedure, but neither is hitting the mountain" š¤£š¤£š¤£..Kelsey ,I love you!!!
250 |
From the European ATC perspective I don't agree with what You said about fuel.
If we ask for "fuel on board", we want the kilograms or tonnes. The only purpose of that information is to pass it to the firefighters. Since it is you, who have the emergency, we don't need to know how long CAN You fly. We want to know how long you WANT to fly. If you need immediate return, you will get it. If you need 10 minutes for the checklist, you will get it. If you need 2 hour for fuel burning You will get it.
If we need to know how long you can fly there's an other word in phreseology: "endurance". "Report endurance" - the answer must be in minutes/hours. And we rarely would use that in an emergency. It happens in "weather situations. Or in our unit's case - with military traffic, which has diffrent fuel regulations. They come back to land with much lower endurance remaining than commercial planes.
427 |
Iām an older controller at a level 12 facility and this is all great info, Iāve learned a lot from your channel. A lot of the weird questions and misunderstandings you may hear from us nowadays is a product of the FAAās recent hiring of people with NO previous aviation experience. However, also bear in mind that there IS a lot going on behind the scenes for us too. Internal coordination between sectors and/or the tower, calling the domestic event network, moving other aircraft out of your way, rolling the equipment, dealing with stupid supervisors mouth breathing over our shoulder asking dumb questions, etc. So we may or may not have operational bandwidth to be able to give progressive instructions either, depending on workload. When they pull the tapes on these incidents they usually tell the computer to filter out all the other transmissions to declutter, so who knows what else was going on. Love your stuff, keep up the good work!
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14:41 "That may not be procedure... but neither is hitting the mountain"
Lol!! I love these explanations expressed in such a straightforward way
14 |
"The universal distress call Mayday was invented in 1923 by Frederick Stanley Mockford, chief radio officer at Croydon airport in London. The authorities had asked him to find a term to signal distress that would be easily understood by all pilots and ground staff in the event of an emergency. Mockford chose a phonetic transcription of the pronunciation of the French expression "m'aider" - āhelp meā (a shortened version of "venez m'aider") which had been uttered by a French pilot in distress two years earlier and which was understood by the English operator as "Mayday". And Pan Pan is from the French 'Panne' (Breakdown)
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As a controller I always assumed holding wasnāt that hard to do for a pilot. Seems like a good idea to have them hold close to the field so they can be ready to come in when theyāre ready. I think the majority of controllers that donāt have piloting experience think this way until we see stuff like this explaining it. My initial thought was that giving the hold instructions wouldāve been easier because now theyāre in one spot near the field and no longer expecting any more radio calls for more control instructions while they troubleshoot and configure.
Iāll keep this video in mind if Iām in the scenario in the future but truly I (and a lot of us) didnāt/donāt know how much workload it increases. As you said though the pilot shouldāve said unable to his hold instructions if it increases the workload that much. Not all of us know how to fly a plane and how much goes into certain tasks and we just want to help lol
Ps. Super embarrassing that a pilot said mayday, mayday, mayday and the controller asked if he was declaring an emergency š¤¦š¼āāļø
92 |
Hey, great video. A320 captain here with a different point of view on the hold issue. The time it takes to enter a hold in the FMGC at least in our aircraft is seconds. With only seconds more to check the inbound off a chart you should have access to in again seconds if you've prepped your elec flight bag properly. That also gives you your minimum hold alt. Now in maybe 10 to 15 seconds they know their horizontal and vertical flight path are secure, close to the approach in case anything else gets worse. Deployment of the reverser for instance. And can go back to the nice stuff like telling little Suzie what's going on. Vectors you continually have to check the minimum vector chart on the initial acceptance of the vector and as you continue on it to make sure your still safe minimum altitude. Controllers are human too and do make mistakes. Holding where they were told to takes that away and allowed them to fully focus on the rest of the failure management stuff. Secondly, Suzie is last priority. If it takes 10, 30 even 60 seconds more to make the aircraft safe before taking to pax so be it. That's a nice to do. Not a must do like the fly and nav stuff. Just my 2 cents, Personally I would have been very happy to hold there until ready for the approach. Keep up the good work. Love the videos even if we have a differing opinion. That's what keeps life interesting
3 |
So this is a typical pilot perspective. I say that as a commercial helicopter pilot. But I'm also an ATC. Pilots think about themselves. They should, it's their job, to fly THEIR aircraft. Controllers on the other hand, think about EVERY aircraft. So whilst as you say, you are very busy in the cockpit, there is a lot going on for the controller too. Firstly, the aircraft with the mayday is the priority but there is still every other aircraft under his control that still needs to be monitored, vectored, or handed off so that the controller has less traffic to think about.
He also needs to co-ordinate. This would be with the aisle supervisor, probably a quick note to say "heads up, I've got a mayday, I'll get back to you". He will then contact the tower to let them know to stop departures like you mentioned and to let them have a rough idea as to what is occurring. This process will continue and every time the controller gets new info he'll have to co-ordinate it. Oh and he still has all those other aircraft I talked about to control. One of the fastest ways to have two aircraft get close together or have some sort of incident is to get hyper focused on an emergency to the detriment of all your other traffic.
When the controller gave the vector to the hold, in my opinion he was basing that on what the pilot has told him both verbally and by his demeanor. You mentioned the pilot sounded calm and in control. The shut down was procedural, not due to something like a bird strike or fire. Yes it was an emergency but even the pilots said they'd like to hold whilst they problem solve. I have found over my 20 year ATC career I have learnt that you can tell a lot from how the pilots communicate. I've heard everything from guys like this to people who knew they were about to die on the radio. So based on how they talk to me I will tailor my response accordingly.
That's not to say that you can load the cool, calm and collected guy/girl up. The situation can change quickly but you definitely make decisions based on both what and how something is said.
One other thing to think about. The pilot said he'd need to hold. It's quite possible that the controller thought the pilot may be actually asking to be sent to SCAPO where the published hold is. I'm not saying that's definitely what happened but it's possible. Again it comes back to communication. The pilot could have just as easily come back and asked for vectors as you say. Listening to this guy, I feel , had it been out of his ability to manage he would have said something. He sounded like a pro to me.
All of this doesn't mean I'm saying you are wrong. I just feel it's a lot more nuanced than is alluded to here.
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@-Master_Of_Disaster
2 weeks ago
14:44 "That may not be procedure, but neither is hitting the mountain." š My kind of humor
1.5K |