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349,759 Views ⢠Oct 19, 2022 ⢠Click to toggle off description
00:00 Introduction
01:17 Our brainâs memory systems
02:38 Justinâs beef with active recall
03:29 Spaced repetition systems, âactive recallâ, and spaced retrieval practice
04:35 Why flashcard systems kind of suck
05:12 Justinâs recommendation
05:35 What are âdesirable difficultiesâ?
07:03 The alternatives to flashcards
08:35 A good question to ask yourself when studying
10:02 An example study comparing elaborative encoding to retrieval practice
11:25 A true statement
Here are some of my other videos which are relevant to the discussion:
How forgetting works:    â˘Â Forgetting doesn't work like you think. Â
Free recall demo:    â˘Â How to do free recall (AKA active rec... Â
Questions about free recall answered:    â˘Â How to Use Free Recall to Learn More ... Â
Example of encoding from reading using organization:    â˘Â Learn More From Every Paragraph | Act... Â
What researchers knew in 1979:    â˘Â 3 Forgotten Studying Secrets from a 1... Â
Advice about learning on your own:    â˘Â 7 Tips For Learning Anything On Your Own Â
Other myths about learning:    â˘Â The Five Biggest Myths About Learning Â
Desirable difficulties:    â˘Â Desirable Difficulties - How Learning...  (my first youtube video!)
Flashcards:    â˘Â The Drawbacks of Flashcards Â
Interleaving:    â˘Â Secrets of Interleaved Practice | How... Â
Sign up to my email newsletter, Avoiding Folly, here: www.benjaminkeep.com/
To read more about retrieval practice, check out: www.benjaminkeep.com/the-wicked-effectiveness-of-râŚ
Justin Sung's video on retrieval:    â˘Â The PROBLEM with Active Recall and Sp... Â
Justin Sung's video on encoding:    â˘Â Study More Efficiently With These 2 B... Â
The pro baseball footage is from:    â˘Â Padres vs. Dodgers NLDS Game 2 Highli... Â
REFERENCES
The article I showed in the video comparing elaborative encoding to retrieval practice is:
Karpicke, J. D., & Blunt, J. R. (2011). Retrieval practice produces more learning than elaborative studying with concept mapping. Science, 331(6018), 772-775. bit.ly/3S5i9KP
Below, one of the classic pieces on retrieval. It's really an illustration of why you shouldn't just stop trying to remember something just because you have successfully recalled it in the past:
Karpicke, J. D., & Roediger III, H. L. (2008). The critical importance of retrieval for learning. science, 319(5865), 966-968. psychnet.wustl.edu/memory/wp-content/uploads/2018/âŚ
This is a meta-analysis on the testing effect, which I haven't read in-depth lately, but is worth checking out if you're into this stuff:
Rowland, C. A. (2014). The effect of testing versus restudy on retention: a meta-analytic review of the testing effect. Psychological bulletin, 140(6), 1432. bit.ly/3VwGpII
There's quite a bit of support for the idea that you want to be operating at a "high level" (e.g., synthesizing, applying, critiquing) early in the game. It's not like you need to learn all these rote facts first. A point that Justin makes eloquently in his video on encoding. The piece below is a great discussion of that.
Agarwal, P. K. (2019). Retrieval practice & Bloomâs taxonomy: Do students need fact knowledge before higher order learning?. Journal of Educational Psychology, 111(2), 189. bit.ly/3T5Va3r
Some have argued that retrieval is only good for simple materials (like remembering new vocabulary words) and not complex materials (like understanding how Newtonian physics works). Although many of the early studies do focus on "simple" materials, there's plenty of studies that establish the effect of retrieval is just as strong for complex materials.
Karpicke, J. D., & Aue, W. R. (2015). The testing effect is alive and well with complex materials. Educational Psychology Review, 27(2), 317-326. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10648-015-9309-âŚ
Views : 349,759
Genre: Education
Date of upload: Oct 19, 2022 ^^
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RYD date created : 2024-05-21T22:25:28.210432Z
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YouTube Comments - 539 Comments
Top Comments of this video!! :3
I have ADHD and have never been able to use flash cards for memorization. What I do for things that I need to memorize is to rewrite them as a children's book (with pictures and all). You need to know the material very well to be able to explain it in a way a child can understand. The thing is that I can just jump right into it and I will research as I go to fill in any blanks in the information. By the time it's done, I know the information inside and out.
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Former lawyer reacts to former doctor about learning! Haha this is great!
566 |
I speak 3 foreign languagesâFrench, Spanish, and Japaneseâand therefore have spent a lot of time memorizing things. In my opinion, focusing on efficacy alone is one of the most toxic conversations common among learners, particularly autodidacts. Itâs a bit like running the 100m dash in preparation for winning the Boston marathon. Yeah, itâs more helpful than doing nothing, but you donât win a marathon by sprinting. Nor even by running. You win a marathon by not stopping.
Similarly, the best methods are the ones that are feasible. Conversation may be more effective than flash cards, but itâs much less accessible. Indeed, the difficulty of finding a language partner, and the limited time you can spend practicing with them, often outweighs the advantages of having one. Moreover, conversations require a certain baseline knowledge that cannot itself be achieved through conversation alone. That baseline is easier to achieve through memorization not because memorization is better but because itâs infinitely faster and more accommodating.
There are ways to engage with memorization beyond just abstractions floating in the ether and anchored to a flash card only by a word and its definition. When memorizing kanji, for example, itâs useful to look at each component and focus on the parts that constitute the whole. Sometimes theyâre meaningful, other times arbitrary, but the process of association unto itself makes the abstract more concrete. Does that mean that learning process ceases to be excruciating? To the degree that wearing a t-shirt in the freezing cold is better than going shirtless, yes. But youâre still going to suffer.
Thereâs a saying among artists: embrace the suck. Ultimately, your capacity to cope with that suck matters far more than your efforts to reduce it.
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As mentioned in the comments, this is taught very early in Justin Sung course. The method consist in encoding the information well and then having a spacing interleaving retrieval to prevent forgetting and learn further.
It would be great to have a video of you and Justin together, or maybe a discord to discuss some ideas further.
Thank you for producing good content :)
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I wish they had more examples of these concepts. Like have a walkthrough of how they study a new concept
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The fact that hundreds of people can converse and contribute to this conversation (i.e they watched both of those videos) are simply amazing. A lot of people are learning how to study more effectively
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You put your finger on it! I was puzzled by Justinâs very simple and narrow definition of active recall, whereas in reality the study strategy he advocates for is precisely what active recall is supposed to be. He has a point though because there definitely are people who are under the impression that theyâre practicing active recall while all they actually do is use flash cards to train their memorization skills. So, admittedly, the confusion stems from the imprecise naming of the concept. It would be better to call it something like âencoding-optimizing recallâ thatâs harder to oversimplify.
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What I liked about this video is that you didn't put all Justin's ideas in the trash. You talked to Justin's ideas and used them together with yours! I liked it very much
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Holy crap, this video is super valuable and your replies to other commenters' questions are an absolute gold mine of not just insight but also compassion. I like your style. New sub here for sure! Thank you for investing so much time and effort into sharing your knowledge!
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Justin's right - the theory of learning is complex. But then you have to boil it down to something that's teachable and workable in practice.
I've been playing with these ideas for over half a century, and for me what works is:
1) Encoding using mind maps focused on answering an explicit question - eg Why was Britain the first country to industrialise? Answering questions forces higher level thinking rather than just parroting your source.
2) Using spaced repetition algos to schedule review of the mind maps
3) Re-creating the mind map from memory to answer the same question or a related question that synthesises related maps - eg What was the role of the Royal Navy in driving the Industrial Revolution?
I evolved this back in the '70s during my undergraduate economics course at Cambridge - rated one of the best and toughest in the world. I got a 1st Class Degree working 9-5, 5 days per week. Many of my classmates, who were far more academically gifted than me, worked themselves to exhaustion for a poorer result. But they were studying hard, not smart...
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Thrilled that this popped up in my recommended. I love the precision and nuance of how you explain learning science, and I like how you talk about Justin without any drama or fuss. Subscribed.
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I stumbled on Justin' Sung then shortly thereafter stumbled on you Benjamin Keep. You are both very helpful and is what I need to improve my reading speed and comprehending then encode and recall information.
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Thank you Ben for sharing your years of experience with no strings attachedđ
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My favorite learning method these days is throwing my ideas out to chat GPT about how I think something I learned connects to something else or applies. Or just start having a conversation asking it for more context. The conversation does a great job helping things sink in.
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Flashcards work well enough for me to get good exam results but if you want to get into a deeper level of understanding I think they wonât work. For something like Maths, remembering your thought process when you attempted a similar maths problem is helpful. Good insight btw Iâm going to use the retrieval components from now!
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Thank you for mentioning language. I watch Justin's videos, but he doesn't mention language as much as other subjects. When you are a beginner in a language, it is difficult to keep going to the next order in the pyramid. There isn't a lot of prior knowledge, especially when the target language is quite different from your native language ie English vs Korean lol
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I think what you're saying and what Justin's saying give me a much better idea of why I've had such poor results from most attempts at SRS for learning Japanese, and also why my experience with the Jalup flash card decks has been so much more successful than the rest of the SRS-based techniques I've tried. Combining SRS with reading (and not just reading the throw-away sentences on the front of the cards, but also the explanations on the back that I need to understand the new item) in the language seems consistent with what you're saying.
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I found this video through Youtube recommendations, I used to watch Justin Sung videos. Great content keep it up!
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Wow I love this.
I've been doing lots of concept mapping with less retrieval. Never bested my course mate who's into 'HUGE RETRIEVAL' and a little below optimum concept mapping than I do
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@benjaminkeep
1 year ago
Check out a conversation between Justin and I on this video here: https://youtu.be/5cbQudbxHi4. Fair warning: it's a bit lengthier and more technical.
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