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Spacedock returns to the topic of sci-fi tank designs.
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YouTube Comments - 695 Comments
Top Comments of this video!! :3
to be fair, key reasons that real life tanks haven't increased in size include the need to fit them onto trains for transport, and the effect of length to width ratio on tanks ability to turn
1K |
Honestly, the amphibious nature of a hovertank would be more in the nature of supporting infantry landings from naval vessels, clearing out both anti-air and anti-infantry defenses to assist securing the beachhead. As for why you wouldn't have blue water (oceanic) naval vessels on a water world: Navy ocean-faring ships are massive. Media does not do justice to just how big even smaller classes are, and even pictures (say, from a Fleet Week) only give you a rough idea. Most scifi universes would be shipping oceanic navy vessels in pieces and assembling it at the end of the trip, and that creates a whole new set of strategic concerns. (Read: New supply chains for navy ammunition and fuel, shipbuilding personnel and facilities for assembly, protection of not just the aforementioned personnel and facilities, but the airspace where you're bringing the pieces down the gravity well.)
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Desert of kharak comes to mind when talking about hover vs tracked vehicle. And they have a straight forward explanation as to why some group use hover tech and others used the basic tracked and wheeled vehicle. I.e. whether or not you have access to the techs.
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One of the best AFVs I saw in fiction was in the opening sequence of the reboot of the anime film Appleseed. It was basically a robot with a GAU-8 in a turret on a fast chassis. The infantry trying to take it out in an urban environment were at a disadvantage, and took heavy casualties because the weapon system had lightning fast reactions and superior sensors.
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From a storytelling point of view, I quite like the idea of an āold standard of the lineā tank that gets upgraded through the years. You can introduce half-assed upgrades, cheapest vendor upgrades, āwe havenāt gotten to your vehicle yetā situations, users customizing non-standard upgrades, etc. suddenly, your protagonists are competing with their own equipment as much as the antagonists. (See real-life soldiers in Iraq trying to armor the undersides of their humvees. Or see the Millenium Falconās constant issues with its hyperdrive.)
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Another comment here mentioned Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak regarding tracked vs hover vehicles.
On a separate branch from them, Deserts of Kharak presents giant tanks, LAVs, and other AFVs and justifies their gigantic size in a way that I wish was more often seen in sci fi.
Tanks on Kharak are monsters. They're 4 story tall crawlers that are appropriately wide enough to not topple over. These vehicles are knowingly designed for this size because unlike real life or realistic sci fi tanks, Kharak's colossal desert doesn't have cover, foliage, or terrain which is too small to conceal a gigantic sandcrawler. Less tanks, these gigantic vehicles are meant to be land crossing warships, and ironically this means they're actually small for warships.
They are very specifically meant to operate in the open desert, much like how a warship is meant to operate across large, mostly flat seas. Their size is used to support crew compartments, facilities, and supplies to protect and allow crew to live in their vehicles during weeks long trips without stopping or needing resupply.
By this point in Kharak's history as well, there are not yet flying spacefaring vessels, [EDIT: nor an atmosphere tolerant of long range flight]. The existence of giant Land Carriers and tracked Battlecruisers are precursors to their spaceborne equivalents, again, much like ocean going warships. It's an idea which is very enchanting, but to knowledge only the Homeworld series has made a convincing and practical argument for giant landships to be relevant over smaller and more conventional vehicles.
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For interstellar forces I think it would be interesting to consider how the realities of lifting such heavy vehicles into orbit after a campaign may impact design. That could force the tanks for expeditionary forces to become almost disposable in design and as cheaply made by necessity, or even modular in a way that all the heavy armour plates are regarded as disposable and get jetissoned with only the more expensive and value-dense systems returned to orbit then new armour plates affixed in transit to the next destination etc. In contrast tanks for planetary defence could be a lot more solid.
148 |
I think that hovertanks using real world hovercraft tech would be massively inplractical but, depending on setting, antigrav tech could be a great option for navigating difficult terain by allowing the tank to avoid hazards on the ground (mines would probably still work with proximity sensors but anti tank ditches are obseleted by hovertanks). also, in 40k, aeldari, drukari and necron hovertanks seem to have limitad flight capabilities. tanks like this could reach places only acessible by air or fly over static defenses then descent to take advantage of cover and support infantry.
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I think that one of the craziest setting that places heavy emphasis on tanks and how they are used is the manga/anime Dominion Tank Police. "Bonaparte" the hero tank will always have a special place in my heart. Though I have always wandered if that type of design was physically possible to engineer, let alone drive.
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When you mentioned amphibious tanks, I instantly thought of the tsunami tank from C&C Red Alert 3.
I love when you guys reference Gundam.
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Remember that all modern MBTs are designed for combined arms warfare, not near peer dueling. A well rounded vehicle for independent combat (mostly with near peers) can be cool and make sense. There's two main ways to go about this - one is to make a tank very fast and flexible like the guntank. Another is to make the thing a landship with different weapons for different threats, like the octo tank from venus wars.
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One thing to bring up for neato sci-fi tanks having quad-tracks - the Siege Tank from the Starcraft series has them, as they have an optional mode where the tracks spread out to act as braces, foring an X pattern with additional bracing, for when it deploys the extra-range guns as an artillery platform mode. I think the quad-track design is under-utilized in what it can bring to the field in sci-fi, namely that it can provide odd design quirks extra features. Transforming tanks especially benefit from it, and I could see someone making a tank-to-walker with quad track pods that turn into the walker's four legs for crossing terrain the tank could not reasonably cross without legs.
On the topic of hovertanks - they might actually have a good use in low gravity, minimal atmosphere scenarios, where normal VTOL and helicopter style craft don't function due to the lack of atmosphere, but you need to be able to go completely still the way a thrust-based craft like a spacecraft wouldn't be able to, while also carrying just as much armor weight as a tank should be able to. Obviously, there might be other options, and it might not be the optimal choice, but it would be sensical in that sort of situation.
There's also the Battletech route to having an impractical vehicle of choice for a setting - in Battletech, the iconic Mechs that mark the series for what it is were not original the optimal fighting vehicle, they just became that due to good propaganda by the original creators, and a series of convoluted treaties, laws, and regulations that hamstrung other options for a couple of centuries. By the time the laws went away due to unending conflict rearing its ugly head, Mechs were popular as the weapons platform of choice, in spite of tanks being perfectly viable and many times cheaper than mechs even into the modern era of Battletech.
9 |
Thanks for including my comment. The problems with weight and bridge crossings are also addressed in Hammer's Slammers. Hover tanks are an overall silly concept though, for many of the reasons mentioned.
Something which I think is often overlooked is that sci-fi tanks ought to be designed to operate in vacuum and lower gravity. A tank designed locally to operate on the moon or Mars is going to outclass any retrofitted tanks imported from Earth, because the reduced gravity allows for heavier weapon and armour. Engineers being engineers, they will absolutely use every last gram. Note also that weapons' ranges on Mars and the moon are insane, for the exact same reasons.
19 |
Rule of cool is still a huge factor as one of the greatest features of sci-fi tanks is how they look. No one likes ugly vehicles that don't look good. Even if the design would generally be considered impractical, useless, redundant, or otherwise no fit for battle.
410 |
one thing in favour of hovertanks is that they can operate in shallows, bogs, or similar enviroments which are near inpassable for naval or traditional ground vehicles, either because the former would run aground constantly or the latter sink in the mud. And making hovertanks over helicopters could easily be a question of training, a hovertank might need more training than a trad. ground vehicle, but still much less that what is needed for an aircraft, so sacrficing the 3rd dimensional mobility for more crew and faster training, to still get most of the advantages of the craft.
plus, depending the tech's details, are the optimal platform to have fixed main gun which does have real advantages such having a lower profile and removing the complexity of a turret, and with strafing you can move outside cover facing with your front armor. Also hovertanks leave no trackmarks, or no identivables at the very least, either making following or determenting the true size of hover vehicles much harder.
6 |
Iām going to reiterate a point I made on the last video: river crossings. Tracked tanks are vulnerable, hover tanks are less so. And helicopters are much more susceptible to rockets than tanks are, which are designed to be able to take a hit. Helicopters donāt have the incredible pointed firepower that tanks have, either. Sure, a 30 mm gun and 8 hellfire missiles are is a lot, but doesnāt compare to the 120 mm main gun of a tank, with well more than just 8 rounds. Hover tanks can still work
5 |
As for hover tanks. Well you are kinda working from the assumption that any hover tech could be equally applied to aircraft. But thats not generally the implication when we see such tech. It's generally assumed it works only in direct proximity to something to push off of. Which would make it not really work for a helicopter or other aircraft.
The other points still apply to them of course. In most situations they would be beaten by either a regular tank or a ship.
19 |
Iāve always enjoyed when settings use multiple vehicles based on settings. Like normally they used tracked tanks but may switch to walkers or hover vehicles that can go over or walk through obstacles.
Especially when they are used together to cover for each otherās weaknesses
23 |
7:28 Bolos are known for this, eventually they even just decide to make the entire underside to be nothing but a number of track.
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