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28,776 Views • Aug 31, 2022 • Click to toggle off description
#philosophy #gender #carefreewandering
@Veera Mirjam
And So The Nightmare Just Continues; The Last Hormone Clinic Visit // FtMtF Detransition Diary:
• And So The Nightmare Just Continues; ...
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Hans-Georg Moeller is a professor at the Philosophy and Religious Studies Department at the University of Macau, and, with Paul D'Ambrosio, author of the recently published You and Your Profile: Identity After Authenticity".
(If you buy professor's book from the Columbia University Press website and use the promo code CUP20 , you should get a 20% discount.)
Views : 28,776
Genre: Education
License: Standard YouTube License
Uploaded At Aug 31, 2022 ^^
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RYD date created : 2024-11-03T15:44:17.802937Z
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254 Comments
Top Comments of this video!! :3
"It's just something about yourself that you need to perform, for better or worse."
Great insight that covers a wide range of traits. If one accepts that identity is a performance, it is easy to get lost and assume that you should therefore not perform anything. Or that anything you do is therefore somehow "fake." This is a good middle ground that leaves room for taking place in performances you generally do enjoy--because you need to perform something to exist intersubjectively--while still realizing there is nothing intrinsic about any performance.
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I am transgender and I agree with most of what you said, but there is a key element about the 4th point that I think could be misunderstood. When you say "be careful with submitting your body to intrusive or medical regimes and procedures" and then conclude the statement with "just to 'better' fit a certain gender profile", I can get behind the second part but I would warn about wording the first part in the way that you did.
I agree, in light of your 3rd point about not overcommitting to a gender, that going through medical procedures for the sake of the gender itself can lead to an "impossible perfection" problem where the subject of gender transition tries to reach an aesthetically-pleasing standard of their gender that is based on societal beauty norms. The lengths that people will go to reach this "perfection" can be limitless, since beauty is subjective and I try warn my fellow trans friends about this unhealthy way of thinking.
But there is something that I personally experience in my medical transition journey that is not covered by this thesis: The feeling of my body. Despite all the psychological help that I've sought out and received for my body dysmorphia, ever since I was young I had a strong sense that something was not right with my body on a physical and sensational level. The only thing that has helped with this sensation has been hormonal replacement therapy and the opportunity for corrective surgery. HRT has rejuvenated my life and given me the ability to feel comfortable. The surgery I am seeking has been on my mind at least a decade before I even came out as trans.
In conclusion, when it comes to trans issues, there is a difference between "seeking standards of beauty" and "feeling right in your own skin". I feel like you may be over-emphasizing the former in your understanding.
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I'd love to see you approach this subject in depth. PS you're the smartest man on YouTube way smarter than Harris or Peterson. Keep up the good work 👏
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The last point, about being careful about using medical procedures to fit the gender part is a bit, well, dubious to me (fine as a warning, but it kind of makes implications that ring some alarm bells in my mind)... as, in many cases, it's not the pressure to conform to gender roles that drives it, it's the actual dissonance between the brain/mind and the body... it has often nothing to do with cultural norms, it's a deeply hardwired dissonance and the manifestation of it is gender dysphoria, which, as I see it, is a perfectly reasonable reaction of the mind to that dissonance (and the overall, rather distressing and disorienting, situation)... People who never experience this dissonance to extreme degree will try to rationalize it and understand in all sorts of strange ways, I noticed... understandable, but still misguided.
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I think the "Your gender is nothing to be proud of" bit is so underrated. I thought the whole point of critique of gender roles was to basically say they were not good and don't actually represent identity in a nuanced way. But rather than get rid of gender roles and see people as who they are: people (i.e., complex, nuanced individuals), some have completely taken the opposite, and seemingly hypocritical position that they need to be reinforced even more so.
One of my problems I have with your position professor; is that you claim that identity is ONLY performed as a public profile (unless I am misunderstanding). However, this does not seem right to me. Sure, there is the identity which is constructed through the social system (1) (i.e., how people see you or; the social systems generative model of you). But then there is seemingly another dimension of personal/private identity (i.e., how you see yourself or; your own generative model of yourself) you could call this a "private profile". Shouldn't the latter be considered when discussing these issues? Cheers.
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Good video. I feel like when Foucault draws distinction between identity as adjective versus noun also now applies to gender. One is often a trans man where trans is the noun, and man is the adjective. This is probably more obvious when using terms like trans masc(uline), where trans is explicitly the noun.
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I'm trans, here are my thoughts on the theses:
1: obvious, agree.
2: very insightful, agree.
3: fair enough at face value, but redundant as "over"-doing anything is bad by definition. coming from a cis person, it also seems a bit unempathetic as treating one's own gender casually is to a certain extent a privilege that trans people, forced to constantly defend their gender against transphobia, don't have.
4: again, fair enough at face value, and probably well-intentioned, but again, I think as a cis person you should be "careful" about giving sage advice to a group of people subject to often extreme amounts of harassment and discrimination. I have met trans people in their 30s who were "unapologetically queer" in their 20s, but eventually just grew so tired of the constant questioning and devaluing of their gender that over time, they developed a wish to pass as the cis version of their gender just to decrease the daily emotional workload that being themselves put on them.
also, the way trans people are treated often creates a direct distressing association in certain parts of their bodies which can become unbearable to the point that medical procedures become an appealing option.
and finally, just going to speak for myself here, I want tits, and if I can have tits, why not get them?
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It makes sense why someone ought not be proud of their gender but it also actually makes practical sense.
It’s a form of resistance against those who seek to oppress by denying them their identity in the first place.
Hence taking the high road is rather idealistic and should not be expected in this time period.
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@23:22 저는 그가 그 특정 질문에 대해 이것을 언급한 이유에 대해 여전히 혼란스럽습니다. 이것은 편집인가요?
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I'm worried the nuance of this message will be lost on "both sides". I totally understand the points that Moeller is making and how it relates to his ideas on identity, that's not my concern. I'm worried that people on "pro-trans" side will be quick to dismiss critiques of transgender identity as they're often thinly veiled attacks on trans people. I'm also worried that people on the (for lack of a better term) "anti-trans" side will use this critique as evidence that there's something uniquely wrong with transgender identity/worldview when the same critiques can be made for traditional/conservative views of gender.
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There are some critiques I like below, but one I did not see on my quick read is that trans people are not so much proud of our gender, it is just a thing we are or are not, but we are proud of becoming who we are, and facing/surviving adversity both as individuals and as a community. That struggle gives us something to be proud of. This is something that is true of many groups and identities.
I like a lot of what you say on your channel and would like to read a book of yours sometime soon since we share similar interests like Daoism, Nietzsche and postmodernism, but I do think you focus too much on the popular liberal/conservative definition of identity politics, woke, and social justice. I did like how you responded to Then and Now but I don't think you quite met his challenge.
If you read this cheers,
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That Blame! book on the shelf. That's a very nice touch.
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I love this video, I always comeback here
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The transgender embodies our technological paradox.. when our body appears to us in an unidentifiable form, we instinctively identify with it. Without such narcosis or numbness of our psyche in relation to our body, there would be no pain-produced space for such surgery.
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Last one sounded a bit weird because the lower risk domain is very often to pursue some surgery, so the warning against “invasive regimes” sort of puts me off because it implies that transition requires one to always sign up for the same suite of surgeries and such, when the reality is usually more complicated.
Example, HRT is great for my mental health and the physical effects are nice, but otoh I take Dr. Powers’ position of being cautious about breast augmentation surgery, esp. regarding when HRT can still get results. So I may opt to NOT get a breast aug, because the benefits might not outshine the risks. But that’s my call to make, something for me and my doc to weigh out but in the end.
Another example: I had a body surgery that re-shaped some areas that were set by an unfortunate endocrine situation. The risks were relatively high, but the payoff is worth it because my anorexic behavior is managed because I managed the dysphoria.
Anorexia has probably already reduced the span of my life and would have killed me, but after this modest surgery I am happy about maintaining a higher weight. That risk was WORTH it. Before I was at a BMI of 17, now I’m at 22.
I’m not sure I can make it into a haiku but here’s some notes:
(1) When it comes to your personal health, risk management is always a game you need to play.
(2) it can get really uncomfortable and unwieldy to talk to others about the risks they’re weighing, especially if you don’t know the full scope of things they’re contending with.
(3) On balance, support those seeking care even if you’re perplexed by the actions you’re seeing.
(e.g. please don’t act confused and bewildered if a trans person found the risks of bottom surgery too high and are foregoing it)
22 |
I think as more people experiment with their gender and push the boundaries with their profiles developing new forms of pronouns or identities which cannot be construed to be bioessential in the way which the authenticity-preoccupied American culture treats gender as analogous to sex (with phrases such as "biologically male" or "assigned male at birth"), there will be less interest in medical interventions, this also reflects onto the commoner gender expressions. Already I find a lot of younger trans people tend to be less interested in surgery, or actually quite squeamish about surgery considering many have never had any type of surgery before and are just kids anyways. I'm glad they get to grow up in more company where gender is increasingly recognized as separate from sex and beholden only for us to master in producing our identities. They have less pressure on them to medically transition when their gender is affirmed early instead of denied on the grounds of authenticity in the way which conservatives like to demean them.
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What happens when the wizard's circle is broken, and the magic no longer works? I often enjoy listening to your work, but the problem I've always had with your brand of philosophy is that it doesn't account (or even allow) for the existence of an an intrinsic, underlying reality.
It's true that there aren't perfectly defined boundaries between categories, and it may simply be impossible to incorporate the entirety of the world into any kind of coherent, rigorous ntellectual framework, but it seems totally counterproductive to me to respond to that dilemna in the way that critical and structuralist theories do. If all we have is illusion, contigency and uncertainty, why not interpret the whole world as having it's fundamental basis in these things?
Because... that's nonesense lol. Who's to say that the stage magician isn't really sawing the woman in half? I hope that made some kind of sense. This way of thinking has such a masturbatory, Luciferian flavor that I sinply will never stop being shocked and dismayed that anybody takes it remotely seriously. What happens when the trick is seen through, and the crowd realizes the magic isn't real? There is sinply no such thing as "gender", it's mere sleight of hand. So much of the modern zeitgeist is sleight of hand and unreality. What happens when the magic no longer works?
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The silence after the end is the most important part.
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Really well put, wow. Thank you for this. I really like the wording on your second point.
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@zeta7920
2 years ago
Lovely, this is the sort of "gender-critical" thinking that I would love to see more of. No need for hatred or willful misunderstanding in order to be cautious and think critically about these issues.
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